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Post by cocobongo on May 9, 2014 9:03:30 GMT
Morning all, just stumbled across your site and would like to say hello. Not sure if I've found this site just in time or maybe too late as I have just erected my dome. Little bit about me, I have been contemplating building my oven for ages. Late last year, I finally started on my dig and building the base. Earlier this year I bought this KL Veneto kit from Kiln Linings kilnlinings.co.uk/wood-burning-pizza-oven-kits/kl-veneto-superior-kit?zenid=2ae79850b2bd2cabfcd2bc0b30d7b957 (link doesn't appear to have worked!!). I must have had a million questions but for now, apart from the fantastic weather  , all seems to be going well. One thing I wasn't so sure about was laying the hearth bricks direct onto the kitchen foil with no forms of adhesive but apart from the extreme weight lifting the sections of the dome into place, all appears to be ok. Another thing, I assume I am ok to grout the joints to the hearth bricks with the fire cement that was supplied? One thing I just read somewhere on here (I think) was that people were putting extra insulation on top of the Calcium Silicate board - is this necessary or is 25mm of that board enough? Sorry for all the questions in my opening post, I'm just typing as it comes to me! I'll see if I can put a couple of pics in this post. Right, I can't, anyone know how to paste pics from my hard drive into a post please? I've clicked on that 'insert image' icon at the top but it's requesting an url?  Edit, think I've done it below??    |
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Post by kstronach on May 10, 2014 17:21:40 GMT
hi well done on starting your build  ! i like the brick work stand you've built. what are your hearth bricks sat on? i can't tell from the photo but i'm hoping you've got some insulation under there! most people on here use aerated concrete blocks (thermalights) or you can use vermicrete or calsil insulation board. this is arguably one of the most important parts as it can't be added after! edit . . . i've just re read your post and noticed you've got 25mm calsil board under there, not sure of the recommended thickness when using board so hopefully someone who has used it before will help you out!! in regard to pointing the hearth i wouldn't bother it looks fairly level to me and the bricks are tight fitting, the pointing would only crack out over time anyway. ash will soon fill the gaps flush as well. keep the pics coming keith |
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Post by cocobongo on May 11, 2014 9:14:39 GMT
hi well done on starting your build ! i like the brick work stand you've built. what are your hearth bricks sat on? i can't tell from the photo but i'm hoping you've got some insulation under there! most people on here use aerated concrete blocks (thermalights) or you can use vermicrete or calsil insulation board. this is arguably one of the most important parts as it can't be added after! edit . . . i've just re read your post and noticed you've got 25mm calsil board under there, not sure of the recommended thickness when using board so hopefully someone who has used it before will help you out!! in regard to pointing the hearth i wouldn't bother it looks fairly level to me and the bricks are tight fitting, the pointing would only crack out over time anyway. ash will soon fill the gaps flush as well. keep the pics coming keith Morning Keith, thanks for your reply and the approval on the brickwork - my brick base is actually 4m, yes 4m wide! Initially, I was just going to build a WFO then it turned into a bbq and a couple of work surfaces either side of the WFO then before I knew it, it was 4m wide!! I'll link a pic up some time when I've unsheeted it all. Yes, under hearth insulation is 25mm calsi board wrapped in tin foil as recommended by KL. I did consider putting some Kingspan under this as did you (just read through your build) but luckily decided against this as I wasn't sure if it would balls things up or not, having read your build thread and the advice on there, it appears I made a good call! Thanks for your advice on the hearth pointing / grouting, I will leave it be. Do you or does anyone know if it's a good or bad idea to start giving the dome a dry out at this stage? I haven't sealed the dome joints yet, I merely have them in place, butted up against each other with daylight shining through everywhere. The sections of the dome were quite damp so yesterday when it stopped raining for about two hours, I gave them some heat with a big daft blow torch before sheeting up again - I can't see this would do any harm and should eventually speed up my drying out process when I do it properly - agree? Edit - have just read more of your thread and it appears it is ok to do this as you and lemonsuoffle discussed. Another thing I've noticed in your build thread was about the insulation around the dome. I have this LBP HT BLANKET TO INSULATE THE EXTERIOR OF THE DOME as supplied by KL and wondered if it would be worth putting more insulation around the dome like this mentioned in your thread shop.vitcas.com/ceramic-fibre-blanket-25mm-vitcas-ceramic-insulation-197-p.asp or would what I already have be adequate? This site is huge, I am sure my questions have been answered elsewhere but I am still navigating my way around the numerous sections etc. Thanks for now. |
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Post by kstronach on May 11, 2014 11:05:05 GMT
not too sure coco tbh about the curing process of modular ovens, from what i've read on here some ovens are supplied pre cured and some need curing so if your in any doubt refer to manufacturers instructions or drop them an email with any questions. personally i can't see it doing any harm just as all ways with curing don't go too hot too soon nice long small burns getting gradually bigger. how much insulation have you got atm then? i would say you want at least 4" of blanket really, the more the better! are you planning to vermi over your blanket then render over that? thats what most do on here and it gives you more insulation as well. i went a slightly different way, meshed the blanket and rendered straight on to it, it keeps a lot of water out of the build in my opinion and saves a hell of alot of drying out. if you do use the vermi you need to make sure its well dried out before you apply you final waterproof render coats, add waterproofer to this mix if you can get some! this is where i bought my blanket from it was the cheapest i could find at the time. make sure to wear a mask when your using it! www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50mm-Ceramic-Fibre-Blanket-for-Kiln-Insulation-Raku-Furnace-Gas-Forge-Pizza-Oven-/251522217770?pt=UK_Crafts_Other_Crafts_EH&hash=item3a8fe4772a |
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Post by cannyfradock on May 15, 2014 17:53:05 GMT
Hello Coco.....welcome to the forum.
It's always difficult to give advice on modular ovens as every manufacturer/supplier has a different set of guidelines to follow when building....and curing the oven.
Your questions on your opening post relate to KL's modular ovens and only Liam from Kilnlinings can tell you exactly what the correct procedure is to get the best possible performance out of your oven. If Liam has advised to lay a 25mm cal-cil board, then fire-brick directly on top.....then go for it. I've used Liam's cal-cil board on a build in Abersychan, Pontypool Wales and although the silver foil which he advises covering the cal-cil is a bit awkward to lay adhesive on....it really does the trick and works extreemly well. My build was very much different and the cal-cil board was 50mm, but for a totally different self build. Liam knows his product best so always go with his directions.
Terry
p.s.....nice looking base....love the brickwork!!
p.p.s.....your links work just fine.
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Post by cocobongo on Jun 8, 2014 16:39:48 GMT
Thanks for the replies gents. I'm going to follow KL instructions as Liam seems a good guy and knows what he's talking about - I've only spoken to him twice but he's very helpful and with them being a Kiln company, well they should know all about this stuff! No real progress since last time I posted although I do have a couple of pics I took a few weeks ago. I have since grouted the joints on the dome, lit a couple of small curing fires when the weather allows and that's it - it's just sheeted up with a big sheet for now! I probably only have a few days work on it but time, weather and going to the pub after work are all against me! As I mentioned previously, this has turned from initially, a small WFO costing a few quid into a big project costing a few more quid....hope the pizzas are good.    |
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Post by cocobongo on Jun 8, 2014 16:43:01 GMT
Btw Canny, that's an awesome looking build under your name, is that yours?
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Post by cannyfradock on Jun 20, 2014 20:35:56 GMT
Hey Coco
Lets hope the extra costs pays dividends. If you get these ovens right they can be anything you want from.... a pizza oven, to have a pizza soiree....to a bread oven ....or a slow roaster for a suckling pig or that special casserole or to baking cakes the following day.
I love the base and your oven will only compliment your brickwork.
.....not quite sure which build I said was mine......I've done quite a few.
Terry
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Post by cocobongo on Aug 10, 2015 17:33:50 GMT
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Post by cannyfradock on Aug 10, 2015 18:26:58 GMT
Hello Coco
I must admit that.....I do love the cooking station that you built. How severe are the cracks?.....if they are minor, then by enclosing the oven in a housing I wouldn't worry about small cracks. If they bare larger than say 5mm's it may be worth parging them up with some lime render. If really severe you could attach some 3 or 4" ex-met to the crack....
Don't use normal rockwool as infill as this stuff is designed to resist high temp fire....ONCE!!....Rockwool is designed as an insulation and a fire-retarder in homes. It will work once against high temperature then it will turn back to powder....perfect for a domestic house fire situation. When I've built a housing around an oven I have always used loose vermiculite in the void.
You say you are going to wrap ANOTHER thermal blanket over the dome.......if it were me I would maybe give the dome a layer of refractory concrete....this will give your dome/oven that extra bit of thermal mass. Ideally you could do with a bag of powdered fire clay to make refractory concrete, but you can also make a decent (ish) refractory concrete with a mix of 4:2:1:1 .....6mm granoliam chippings(these can be bought at most builders merchants as 6mm chippings), sand, opc cement and hydrated lime (hydrated lime can also be bought in most builders merchants and garden centers)..........ratio 4:2:1:1..chippings,sand, cement and lime.....that's just what I would do in your circumstance. You could the use loose vermiculite to fill the void before tiling your enclosure. (keep an eye on the Jewson Discount account which the forum has with Jewsons. I'm finalising a special discount for us within the next few weeks)....Our account is still valid using the forum code of WOOP 248 but hope to get better deals in the following weeks.
All the best with the re-furb.
Terry
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Post by cocobongo on Aug 10, 2015 19:03:04 GMT
Terry, thanks for your reply. The cracks are only hairline and as far as I can see are not 'structural' as such, but I also have an issue around my flue, hence the decision to cover the whole thing.
I'm going to follow your advice to the letter as you obviously know what you're on about! So would you say that putting another blanket over the dome isn't worth bothering with? Coincidentally, I've got some bags of grano knocking about and the rest of the stuff is obviously easy to find. You say the grano option will make a 'decent (ish)' mix - I want to get this right so would you think the grano option will be ok or should I source some powdered fireclay? I can literally throw this mix on as it will have the block surround to hold it in. How thick shall I put this stuff on? Regarding the loose vermiculite, where do you get this from? I was going to bed my tiles onto some normal mortar on top of my insulation but I'm thinking this won't be firm enough due to the vermiculite and will therefore probably use tile battens. One last question for now if you don't mind, what exactly does the lime do?
Many thanks.
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Post by cobblerdave on Aug 11, 2015 3:53:53 GMT
G'day
If you going to house the oven in a structure I'd just fill it with pearlite. No mucking around with extra blanket or chicken wire. Cheap qick and efficient Most folk use pearlite with cement which lowers its heat resistant. Loss fill its a very efficient high temp insulation.
As for domestic rock wool insulation I've used it as a secondary insulation over 50 mm of ceramic insulation.
It can't be used as a primary insulation up against the hot brick surface.
Love to see pics as you house the oven in. It's common with the Americans but not as much with the Brits or the Aussies
Regards Dave
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, all seems to be going well. One thing I wasn't so sure about was laying the hearth bricks direct onto the kitchen foil with no forms of adhesive but apart from the extreme weight lifting the sections of the dome into place, all appears to be ok.
Edit, think I've done it below??
! i like the brick work stand you've built.
